Pandemic flu

topic posted Fri, April 24, 2009 - 7:26 PM by 
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There's a deadly new strain of flu brewing in Mexico that seems to have crossed the border into San Diego.
bit.ly/PldJi

two herbs that have a history of being helpful in past flu pandemics are andrographis (during one of the 20th century pandemics in India, I think) and boneset (US 1918, the really deadly one).

Andrographis is too nasty to take as a tea- capsules and tablets are available at many health food stores but not all of them.
Boneset works better as a hot tea. It is hard to dose with capsules only.

Andrographis is often combined with eleutherococcus in a formula for colds and flu.

Boneset combines well with red root or other lymph system support.


sources for my comments mostly come from Stephen Buhner's various books. I may read heard the boneset comment in Kathy Abascal's book on the Eclectic herbalist physicians' post-1918 pandemic surveys, though it was probably from Buhner.

Kathy Abascal Herbs and Influenza book discusses :
www.herbsandinfluenza.com/aboutbook.html
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  • Re: Pandemic flu

    Fri, April 24, 2009 - 9:25 PM
    theres more out there.,truckloads---+our media is only telling us the tip--this is really scary stuff folks--
    • Re: Pandemic flu

      Fri, April 24, 2009 - 9:57 PM
      Guess it's beneficial to not get into fear but be assertive in supporting the immune system as a general preventative..in the meanwhile..
  • Re: Pandemic flu

    Wed, April 29, 2009 - 6:29 PM
    we were talking about this in herb class today. My teacher was saying with a lot of these killer flus when it is the healthy people that are dying, it isn't the bug that kills as much as it is the immune system's over-reaction to the bug. He was suggesting using elderberry & baical scullcap (Scutellaria baicalensis not S. lateriflora) for it.
    • Re: Pandemic flu

      Wed, April 29, 2009 - 9:09 PM
      the reports so far are intresting and confirm a lot of my basic understandings abu viral infectious diseases.

      the "healthy people" AREN'T dying. they are getting the fu and for the most part recovering in short time. check out the actual reports.now i dont weant to sound health-ist - a compassionate and functional society looks after its weaker members, the people with other health conditions, the aged, teh disabled, as well as the vigorous ones.

      in most of the places outside mexico where cases of H1N1 have been confirmed, it has been a mild to moderate infection very similar to ordinary' seasonal flu. some epidemiologists are postulating that strains have already mutated to a less virulent form as the disease reaches North America and Europe, but i doubt it...i honestly think this is abut nutritional and general heath status. much like measles. the nearly-two-year-old boy who died in Texas of this flu was actually a Mexican national, visiting relatives in Brownsville TX.

      elderberry extract sounds ilke a good approach, aso echincea (strong root tincture!), osha root 9works well in raw honey), lots of garlic, hibiscus and ginger tea.

      I think the less we think of it as "killer flu" the better off we are...that;s jsut alarmist thinkin, relly. and i also think we need to look out for the elders and the babies and the otherwise vulnerable.

      there was a professor of medical geography talking about this on KPFA today and saying that it is in some ways a "NAFTA flu" the results of the continuing industrialization of agricultre, especially animal agriculture. the huge hog farms where this is beieved to have originated in mexico are making pork for export to the US and are subsidiaries of US corporations.
      I;e fund that additional natural vitamin C, ore ven synthetic ascorbic acid, really does help when there is added stress around infectious disease, thugh the research results are contradictory on this.
      I;d also wat lkots of Votamin A-rich foods - again, i'm not sure about infuenza,but there is a documented relationship between vitamin A status and severity of emasles infection...can;t hurt ot take crrot juice, bakd sweet potatoes, broccoli, apricot juice, tomatoes, dark leafy greens...
  • Not to worry it's got friends:

    Thu, April 30, 2009 - 8:58 AM
    • Re: Not to worry it's got friends:

      Fri, May 1, 2009 - 8:43 AM
      i honestly think there is a delicate balance to the continuum between alarm and denial. and this time, president Obama gotit right in addressing just that.

      sadly, most of these viral diseases such as influenza, RSV, measles, chicken pox, and some of the emergent viruses do NOT kill or disable randomly; they are especially dangerous to people who are already compromised by poor nutrition, crowded living conditions, chronic disease or endemic parasites, etc. - which is why i have long felt that the vaccination campaigns in the US for what are typically mild to moderate infections in a well-nourished First World population could easily be part of a biological warfare strategy in the developing world. I had all the strongl immunological viral diseases that are now vaccinated against by the time i was 8...measles, mmps, rubella, chicken pox...as well as an uncomplicated but uncomfortable bout with flu several times in childhood and then about once every eleven to thirteen eyars as an adult (and it;s been nearly eleven years since the last time i had true viral flu, so I AM interested in avoiding this "swine flu.")

      there is now epidemiological evidence and standard medical interest in an old hypothesis of the hoistic healthmovement, which is that successful exposure t mild to moderate viral illness has long term BENEFITS for the individual'simmune system; i primes our general immune response to recognize and overcome invaders, and there appear to be correlations between natural exposure t these vruses 9and possibly som bacterial infections) and lowered rates of cancer later in life fr just that reason.

      as Dr Anrew Weil an others have pointed out, the 'village idiots" seemed to void the plague during the Middle Ages, perhaps because they couldn; understand the severity of the situation, perhaps because they were shunned by others 9though if it is really carried by fleas withmammals as an intermediate host...well...)

      most people who die of "flu" really die of secondary, often bacterial infections including pneumonia, and we do have efficacious treatments for that if caught in time.

      ;e never had pneumonia in my life..lungs not one of my weak spots, apparently, tougb iwent through a stage of atching a lot of lods that coul fel pretty nasty for a few days(lsot m tonsils t the medical fads of the 1960s as a child when i ws believed the tretment for ear infetions...weird, in retrospect, adn probably did affect my immune system for the worse in the ogn run)...

      but is till maintain that proper nutrition and sanitation are the real answer to 'Third World diseases" which are more properly called 'diseases of development and underdevelopment."

      improving the Vitamin A status of the eople who are suffering the most would do wonders for calming the severity of fluinfction, and it is cheap and we know how to do that.

      have a big glass of carrot juice! and send a sweet potato to a hungry child today.
      • Re: Not to worry it's got friends:

        Fri, May 1, 2009 - 10:15 AM
        Did you actually hear what he said?
        • Re: Not to worry it's got friends:

          Fri, May 1, 2009 - 11:49 AM
          hear him? i believe so, have my wn take about it alltought some of what i hve to say might be valuabl t sme, no offense meant to anyone here. and I try to avoi internet word-fights. took a few mincrobiology classes over the eyars and 'emergent disease" IS a matter of concvern in glabal perspective. and I also stand mylso stand by my basic thesis which is that there is a delicate balance between panic and denial when i comes to these things. I'm just not panicked abut avian flu, thoug I take due note of the Egypt case,and haven't found that panic/alarm is a useful response to most crises, great or small.

          aGAIN, APOLOGIES IF i HAVE OFFENDED ANYONE, NEITHR OFFENSE NOR INTERNET WORD-FIGHTS ARE THINGS i SEEK.

          MUST GO. TALK LATER!
          • Re: Not to worry it's got friends:

            Fri, May 1, 2009 - 12:38 PM
            I just read the Forbes article about the CDC's investigation of the Mexican cases- the bad news, if they reported it right (which I wouldn't assume), is that it's young people dying, something that sounds like 1918. Also, supposedly they ruled out secondary infections as the cause of death.

            Again, just cause it was reported doesn't mean it's reported correctly, I'd want to see more info before believing Forbes on this, as their health reporting isn't all that good:

            quote:
            www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2...367496.html
            4. Why have so many people died in Mexico, but virtually nobody anywhere else?

            OK, this is the REAL million-dollar question, and a swarm of public health experts - including several from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - have descended upon Mexico in search of an answer. This is especially a head-scratcher because experts have found no difference in samples of the virus collected in Mexico and the United States.

            One theory is that many more people have had the virus in Mexico than health officials realize, and the number of cases there could well eclipse the number anywhere else in the world. If so, that country's death toll - at least a dozen confirmed deaths and many more suspected ones - would make sense.

            Other theories have been floated - and ruled out - for the number of deaths in Mexico:

            _ Lab tests of Mexican patients found no sign of complications from a second infection.

            _ CDC investigators have not seen any obvious problem with low-quality health care.

            _ The CDC found no evidence of an over-the-counter medicine or folk remedy compounding the problem.

            _ Complications from Mexico City's altitude or air pollution are unlikely because severe cases have been reported in parts of Mexico at low altitude and with cleaner air.

            5. Who are the victims in Mexico?

            The Mexican government has revealed little about the victims, citing privacy reasons. The government has even been a bit haphazard about providing information that would not violate privacy rules, such as ages and hometowns.

            After prodding by journalists, Health Secretary Jose Angel Cordova revealed Thursday that 5 of the 12 confirmed dead were between the ages of 20 and 40 and that they had an overactive immune system - possibly explaining why they did not survive.
            • Re: Not to worry it's got friends:

              Fri, May 1, 2009 - 1:42 PM
              ***********4. Why have so many people died in Mexico, but virtually nobody anywhere else?*******

              I would think it'd be because the Oligarchy in Mexico allows for a substantial amount of the population that is mired in poverty and ignorance.
              Such person would by definition be more vulnerable.

              From an Oligarch's that might be validation of their policies.
              • Re: Not to worry it's got friends:

                Fri, May 1, 2009 - 8:13 PM
                I heard on NPR a few hours ago..there was an interview with the influenza specialist for World Health Organization - that most of the deaths in mexico were in people already hospitalized fo something else (that is, thye may have caught flu while in hospital) and that there is some question whether all those deaths, mostly from pnumonia as the most immediate cause, were even related to this virus.

                it also turns out according to the same edipemiologist that the present virus is less similar genetically to the 1918 pandemic flu virus than was originally thought.

                someone mentioned possibly making a homeopathic nosode based on this virus, but how easy is it to obtain?

                it seems to me that some of the discussion abut which herbs are mst appropriate depends on what kinds of symptoms present...which is also an important aspect of homeopathic treatment. for some it might be about strengthening the lungs to prevent or treat bronchitis and pneumonia, for others boosting the production of certain types of lymphocytes, for others managing pain and fatigue, or promoting restful sleep, or balancing kidney activity or digestive processes.
              • Re: Not to worry it's got friends:

                Tue, May 5, 2009 - 6:47 PM
                Did anyone think it rather odd that the first cases of swine flu were coming from Third World areas of Mexico where even basic medical services are often lacking, let alone a sophisticated screening test for a brand new disease, a procedure which would take months to create, even in the most modern of clinical settings? So once again we ask, without a screening procedure, what are they counting, in Mexico, in Texas, wherever? And exactly what distinguishes these new cases that are being hourly hawked by every single media service in the known world, what sets these cases apart from ordinary flu cases?

                The other question no one is asking is this: what was the incidence of flu in these Mexican towns the same time last year? How about last month? Do you see - without a very specific viral screening test, the numbers mean nothing, except as fuel to the media fire.

                So going just this far, it doesn't take much reasoning to grasp that we're being set up here. Unfortunately this is much farther than the majority of the unlettered public will question it.

                ***read the rest of the article here at www.thedoctorwithin.com/swine/...flu.php ***
                • Re: Not to worry it's got friends:

                  Tue, May 5, 2009 - 11:31 PM
                  Thanks Graham. Thats a logical assessment of what is reality.

                  The flu has and always will be mutating to some extent. Every time it does, those in charge give it a new name. The swine flu is now making it debut in the new. Last go around it was the bird flu.. so now they have ppl on the borders watching birds fly by getting paid big bucks. Then it was mad cow disease that some human was told they have...

                  My personal opinion is that the new media jumps on these diseases just like they jump on every thing else.. with a vengeance until something else takes their attention away from it. They are after the ratings and most of them don't really seem to notice what it does to "real" people's emotions.

                  In my personal opinion, a hypothetical situation: a journalist could write an article that could cause wide spread panic.. of small or epidemic proportions as a result of said article, and not have a clue why people were reacting in such fear.

                  I'm not saying (in any way), not to be concerned about the flu, swine, bird or other wise. For those with weakened immune systems the flu can be deadly. Many people have been hospitalized for just the simple flu, let alone all the other names for the different strains of flu that are out there.



                  My husband is now required to get a flu shot every year because his upper respiratory is challenged, so you may (or may not) want to contact a physician to see if that would help prevent some of the more severe symptoms of this type of flu or see if there is anything that can be done as a preventative.

                  By all means if you are concerned, then there are numerous products on the market to day to help boost the immune system. Nutrition and healthy bodies are one of the major combatants for fighting off any type of illness.

                  There is a nasty tasting lichen called usnea that aids in killing harmful bacteria, virus, and fungus. (google it. theres a lot of info on it.) it is not, however, to be mistaken with witch's hair.

                  www.medicineatyourfeet.com/usneaspp.html


                  WESTERN FUNCTIONS REPORTED: Antibacterial; antibiotic; antifungal; antiparasitic; antiseptic; as bitters; dermatological aid; eupeptic; general wound healer.

                  TRADITIONAL CHINESE ENERGETIC FUNCTIONS (~ = extrapolated):
                  1) Opens the chest~, cleanses the lungs, transforms phlegm~.
                  2) Removes damp heat.
                  3) Invigorates blood~.
                  4) Clears heat and toxins.
                  5) Clears deficiency heat~, stops bleeding.
                  ***********************************************************************************************************
                  Here is an article about the swine flu straight from wikipedia.com

                  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009...u_outbreak


                  Swine influenza (also called swine flu, hog flu, and pig flu) refers to influenza caused by those strains of influenza virus, called swine influenza virus (SIV), that usually infect pigs.[1] Swine influenza is common in pigs in the midwestern United States (and occasionally in other states), Mexico, Canada, South America, Europe (including the United Kingdom, Sweden, and Italy), Kenya, Mainland China, Taiwan, Japan and other parts of eastern Asia.[1]
                  Transmission of swine influenza virus from pigs to humans is not common and properly cooked pork poses no risk of infection. When transmitted, the virus does not always cause human influenza and often the only sign of infection is the presence of antibodies in the blood, detectable only by laboratory tests. When transmission results in influenza in a human, it is called zoonotic swine flu. People who work with pigs, especially people with intense exposures, are at risk of catching swine flu. However, only about fifty such transmissions have been recorded since the mid-20th Century, when identification of influenza subtypes became possible. Rarely, these strains of swine flu can pass from human to human. In humans, the symptoms of swine flu are similar to those of influenza and of influenza-like illness in general, namely chills, fever, sore throat, muscle pains, severe headache, coughing, weakness and general discomfort.
                  The 2009 flu outbreak in humans, known as "swine flu", is due to a new strain of influenza A virus subtype H1N1 that contained genes most closely related to swine influenza.[2] The origin of this new strain is unknown, however, the World Organization for Animal Health (OIE) reports that this strain has not been isolated in pigs.[3] This strain can be transmitted from human to human,[4] and causes the normal symptoms of influenza.[5]

                  The 2009 outbreak of influenza A (H1N1) virus is an epidemic of a new strain of influenza virus that was clinically identified in April 2009,[48] and is commonly referred to as swine flu.[49] It is currently a Phase 5 outbreak, one level below an official pandemic.
                  Although the exact origin of the outbreak is unknown, it was first detected when officials in Mexico and the United States suspected a link between an outbreak of late-season flu cases in Mexico and cases of influenza in Texas and California.[50] Within days, hundreds more suspected cases were discovered in Mexico, with more cases also showing up in the U.S. and several other countries. By late April, officials from the U.N.'s World Health Organization (WHO), based in Switzerland, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the U.S., were expressing serious concern about the flu outbreak, worried that it might become a worldwide flu pandemic.[51] As a result, WHO raised its alert level to "Phase 5" out of 6 possible, which it defines as a "signal that a pandemic is imminent".[52] By the end of April, 2009 government across the world had taken emergency measures to slow the transmission of a possible pandemic.[53] At the same time, however, many scientists were reaching a consensus that the epidemic was so far "relatively mild," and believed that it could be less fatal than previous pandemics.[54]
                  The new strain is an apparent reassortment of four strains of influenza A virus subtype H1N1.[55] Analysis by the CDC identified the four component strains as one endemic in humans, one endemic in birds, and two endemic in pigs (swine).[55] However, other scientists have stated that analysis of the 2009 swine flu (A/H1N1) viral genome suggests that all RNA segments are of swine origin.[56] and "this preliminary analysis suggests at least two swine ancestors to the current H1N1, one of them related to the triple reassortant viruses isolated in North America in 1998."[57] One swine strain was widespread in the United States, the other in Eurasia.[55]
                  Worldwide the common human H1N1 influenza virus affects millions of people every year, according to WHO officials, and "these annual epidemics result in about three to five million cases of severe illness, and about 250,000 to 500,000 deaths" annually.[58] In industrialized countries most of these annual deaths occur in people aged 65 or older.[58] By May 2, some pigs in Canada were diagnosed with H1N1.[59] Although some influenza strains can spread between species, the influenza virus is killed by normal cooking procedures, so there is no risk of infection from consumption of well-cooked pork and pork products.[60]
  • Re: Pandemic flu

    Fri, May 1, 2009 - 1:41 PM
    I have complied some herbs that can be used to help cure or lessen the symptoms associated with the cold or the flu virus. Also, lets not forget about prevention. Proper nutrition is key in avoiding infection to begin with.

    Always remember to check with your doctor to make sure that any alternative medicine treatment you choose to pursue does not interfere with current health issues or medication that you are taking. Some herbs should not be used by people with certain health conditions or by people taking certain over the counter or prescription medications. If you are pregnant or nursing, always check with your doctor before using herbs!


    Bee balm can be used to alleviate colds and coughs. Bee balm is a natural antiseptic that may help heal respiratory illnesses as well as help clear nasal congestion.

    Andrographis This herb has been used by the Chinese for centuries to prevent or shorten the duration of a cold. It's anti-bacterial properties help to kill the infection and is believed to stimulate the immune system. Some studies have shown this herb to be more effective than echinacea.

    Licorice root is an anti-inflammatory, emollient, antispasmodic and expectorant. This will help with multiple discomforts while battling the flu or a cold.

    Olive Leaf Extract fights bacterial and viral infections.

    Grapefruit Leaf is a know antibacterial, antiviral, anti-fungal and anti-parasitic herb.

    These are not herbs, but wanted to include them anyways because both of these components can be very beneficial in fighting against the cold or flu.

    Colloidal silver is another natural antibiotic. It is said to be very powerful and very effective against fighting illness.

    Hydrogen Peroxide is supposed to be effective 80% of the time if used when the symptoms first appear. It is said that this method can cure the flu or cold within 12 to 14 hours by inserting a few drops of 3% hydrogen peroxide into each ear. Wait until the bubbling, and possibly some mile stinging, stop. Drain the excess fluid and repeat on the other ear.

    For more information on how to effectively fight against the cold or the flu, please visit my site for more cure remedies for the cold and flu that are not listed here. www.cureremedies.net
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Pandemic flu

    Sun, May 3, 2009 - 8:23 AM
    Fight fire with fire. I mean use good bugs to fight off the bad one. Probiotics is the front lines of defense .
    • Re: Pandemic flu

      Sun, May 3, 2009 - 10:27 AM
      Um... the 1918 flu still killed tons of people who ate kraut, yogurt, and such. which was nearly everybody in Europe at that point. I don't think it's exactly 'the first line of defense'. Unless you're trying to sell something.

      Oh wait, you are.
      • probiotics...

        Sun, May 3, 2009 - 6:29 PM
        might be good for general immunity, but there is a HUGE difference, or many diferences, between bacteria and viruses. probiotics ar beneficial bacteria, which fill niches that woul otherwise be ccupied by less helpful or even pathogenic bcteria in the body.

        some probiotics include yeasts, which are the one-celled form of microscopc ungiwhich is also now its own kingdom.

        viruses are not bacteria, which are one-celled forms of life, now considered thier own kingdom o domain, that can live independently of a living given proper condition; viruses do not reproduce indepndent of the host organism; they have no DNA of their own and they function by :taking voer" the DNA replication of their host.

        so probiotics might help you feel stronger in general and with less pathogenic bacteria around, your immune system might be mroe ready to fight off invaders such as flu viruses...but they won't do all that much for a general response to a viral invasion.
        because viruses, especailly the many cold and flu viruses out there, mutate so fast, and because of specific properties of these viruses colda and flu are onl weakly immunogenic - that's about specific immunity, the process by which a host's body recognizes a specific antigen 9such as chicken pox virus) and is already rpepared with the antibodies to bud it and render it incapable of invading the host. specific immunity takes a few days to kick in when you are forst exposed to a virus to whch ou ar susceptible; that's why you generally feel shitty the first few days of being sick, when your body is still mobilizing he on-specific defenses to render the virus less harmful.

        I read a hypothesis today that makes sense; hat the 1918 ful ay have been made worse by the widespread use of aspirin for the first time. it was given nsotly o reduce pain and achiness 9which is generally a result of the immune system being mobillized) and as a side effect, i reduced fever, which made the host body less able to fight the infection...according to this hypothesis, many of the complications that proved deadly might have been avoided if the fever had been allowed o run its course.

        it is only recently that the beneficial role of fever has been explored b doctors, physiologists, and epidemiologists. fever does many things to help fight illness, including helping the body produce more and differnt white blood cells to fight infection, and creating a temporary state of anemia for teh cells the virus is invading...so that oss of appetite and the old tea-and-toastor other simple diets that were popular fo treatment of flu and other fever-producing diseases may well have had some beneficial effects.

        on the "krau and yougurt" issue - i think this aried gretl by antionaliy and county of origin (yogurt was a Central and Eastern European dish not well known i Western Europe, nd by the time of the WWI, there were boycots of sauerkraut and anything remotely associated with gemans in the US and England.

        all this talk of ood food is making me hungry. take care everyone.
      • Re: Pandemic flu

        Mon, May 4, 2009 - 12:05 PM
        ************I don't think it's exactly 'the first line of defense'. Unless you're trying to sell something.

        Oh wait, you are. *************


        HA HA Ha
        And committing a felony in the process.

        I wonder if people know how much trouble they can get into when offering things for a fee that they call cures for disease.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Pandemic flu

          Mon, May 4, 2009 - 4:12 PM
          Our Body has ten times more bacteria than blood cells. Bacteria defend us from many kinds of problems. The activity of bacteria family in the body act alot like the tribe.(world) 5% bacteria regenerate the group(good bugs)......5% destroy the world(bad bugs)........ 90% will do what ever the dominate group is doing no questions asked. Our body has more than yogurt and kruat type probiotics so we must look past this small group of microbes and embrace the fact that we have more bacteria than you(DNA cells). I think over 400 different groups.
          • Re: Pandemic flu

            Tue, May 5, 2009 - 7:16 AM
            ***************Our Body has ten times more bacteria than blood cells. ***************

            What an interesting assertion. Care to back it up with something of merit?
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Pandemic flu

      Mon, May 4, 2009 - 4:29 PM
      This is a real crime worth all your tax dollars. Will you feel safer with me in jail? You have jailed many of our tribes(Natives) and killed our Shamen for this same crime, so the treatment of your Great Grandfathers and Grandfathers still live in your heart. This will not stop the Medicine Man and his Dirt Worshiping Ways. The plants we grow today and love we have known since time stared . I love you all and pray for us to UNITE. Your Brother, Cuauhtemoc
      • Re: Pandemic flu

        Tue, May 5, 2009 - 7:41 AM
        *******Will you feel safer with me in jail? **************

        Yes. And that greed driven psychopath Kevin Trudeau.

        There are laws. Obey them. Obey them or work the system to get them changed. But don't try to sell the notion that you are so holy that you should be above the same laws that I have to obey.
        • Re: Pandemic flu

          Tue, May 5, 2009 - 7:47 AM
          And really what is frustrating to me, is that if you are trying to share information and I find out that you are promoting your business I really do not trust your motives.
          Blessings
          Linda
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Pandemic flu

            Tue, May 5, 2009 - 9:14 AM
            Thank you Cliff ,I will build on your information to better care for each other. Blessing to the greatest tribe "US"
          • Re: Pandemic flu

            Tue, May 5, 2009 - 9:15 AM
            Yah sharing information is not the same thing as sharing an order slip.

            I have some really great stuff for you here but you gotta pay for it.

            Not the spirit of things on tribe.
            • Re: Pandemic flu

              Tue, May 5, 2009 - 11:00 AM
              Laws. Hah!!!

              The precious LEGAL PHARMS may subside SYMPTOMS...


              ...they may also cause blindness, rectal bleeding, and a swollen tongue that may "induce death".

              Hah!!!

              We've lasted for hundreds of thousands of years without 'em.
              ...both laws, and pharms.
              • Re: Pandemic flu

                Tue, May 5, 2009 - 12:30 PM
                Thank you all for you invaluable input.. however I think things are getting off topic.. please keep things on topic according to the thread involved..

                Thank you

                Gypsi Star
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Pandemic flu

              Tue, May 5, 2009 - 11:09 AM
              Linda knows this is false. I offered it to some choice members free. I also send free samples of healing clay to Wine Tribes members(see wine post) to show them how balance can be restored with far infrard waves by lower Tannis and acids bringing the fruit forward in red wines.(orbit/spin) I think you will love Indian healing clay Cliff and I will send you some if you like. You can share the results with the tribe. I think it will bring us closer together and show the tribe the more different we are the more we are the same.Your brother ,Cuauhtemoc
              • Re: Pandemic flu

                Tue, May 5, 2009 - 1:00 PM
                I've seen birds of all species taking dust baths in that and similar clay. They don't just go for any ol' dirt.

                It kills parasites and such and helps balance oils in the feathers.
                I also believe it helps balance the ph on the inside as they breathe it in.

                The little creatures of the Earth never cease to amaze with their wisdom.

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